Just one?

[GF.]

If you were (or are) considering a pistola, what would you look at first? Or more to the point, I guess, what would you recommend that I look at myself ;)

I'd like something that's reasonably pleasant to shoot, because if you're gonna need to shoot, you're gonna need to know how to get it right the first time. That means range time, so something that's easily 'downloaded' with factory ammo has a certain appeal. To my knowledge, though, that mostly limits you to wheelguns.

It'd have to be a perfectly adequate stopper, again, just in case. Great-great Grandpaw's .32 short ain't gonnna make the grade, nor is my Single-Six, even with the Mag cylinder in there.. If I'm not mistaken, that's gotta be a .38 Spcl or a Nine at a bare minimum and up from there...

And it'd have to be something that I could reasonably carry should I feel an inclination to do so. Bearing in mind that I'm not real big, that has to limit my options, I'd think. Anything over 8" overall would be ridiculous on me--I'd look like an Alaskan fishing guide with a big revolver in a shoulder holster-- and I'm skinny enough that a wide-load doublestack would probably stick out like a sore thumb.

So is there some 'perfect' CCW piece out there for me? Like a mid-sized .40 or something? Or would the smart thing be to do the real volume at the range using my Single-Six (with its 6" barrel) and look for something more compact, even if it's basically a PITA to shoot ?

[Hi Ball]

GF......A stopper starts with a 45acp! I have a couple of 40S&W's and I do NOT consider them a STOPPER caliber. The 1911 military type pistol is not easy to become a good pistol shot using. It takes a ton of proper practice not the best for a beginner to practice with starting out ok.

My first pistol was a .357 mag in a Colt Python, cost was $175.oo in those days in the mid-60's. They now sell for over $1,600 Dollars if you can even find one for sale. A good 686 Smith & Wesson will serve you well and you can shoot 38spl ammo (lighter recoil) until you get the hang of things later down the road.

However,I would suggest purchasing a .22LR for practice and learning how to shoot and handle a pistol. It is also a excellent idea to get yourself proper instruction on using the pistol correctly. This will perhaps save you an accident in the future.

You will also have to decide what type of action you want in a pistol. Single Action are what you see Cowboys use in Western movies. Detective Specials are Double & Single Action revolvers, some are just Double as they have NO HAMMER EXPOSED.

Then you have the DA/SA Action type pistols like the Sig Sauer, a premium handgun that costs top dollar, more so than a Glock or Smith & Wesson pistol, which are semi-auto pistols.

The .357 magnum is the most versatile of the calibers I think, as you can use the 38spl or .38 + P ammo (hotter than .38spl) as you work you way up the ladder of being able to handle the recoil. Like I stated prior, the .22LR is a good way to start......then the rest will come much easier.;):)

[GF.]

So it sounds like you're recommending a DA revolver in .357 Mag...
Something like that little hummer below?

(Not very fashionable of you now, is it??? :D )

That's probably about my upper limit for OAL (8") and it only holds 5, but it is purpose-built as a .357, so should last through a whole mess o' plain-jane .38 Smiths...

Haven't handle one of these in a long, long time, but I do recall it feeling pretty 'normal' in my hand.... And I don't recall having to cup the cylinder in my left hand to steady it....:rolleyes:

On the other hand, that 686 is a whole different animal - a K/L frame vs. the little Ruger being comparable to a J.... Damn, wasn't that pistol the star of one of the Dirty Harry flicks, where a couple of renegade cops were taking things into their own hands? Or was that a Python movie?:rolleyes:

That alone might account for the premium on the Colts...

[dave-t.]

For a do-it-all 1 gun, I think S&W makes a 357, that takes .38, 357, and 9mm in half moon clips. That is a crisis gun if I ever heard of one.

If it was me, and I had to have/use one pistol for everything forever......it would be a Ruger 22 of somesort.

My feelings are that if you are shooting at someone, with any type of firearm, and they don't make an effort to escape, you're already over matched and dealing withh someone way over your head.

Shotguns do just fine for home protection, and I can't imagine getting hit with one or more .22 slugs is going to improve the bad guys aim, if it comes to that.

I shoot rabbits, coons, possums, frogs. etc. I don't reckon trouble will look for me if I don't go looking for it.

[Hi Ball]

GF.......I am recommending you purchase a .22LR FIRST! Now if you have handgun experience, then go after the revolver as they are pretty well known to be fool proof.....maybe I should not make that statement but if your gonna bet your life on a handgun, a Revolver is the one to have OK.
Those words are by Mr. BILL JORDAN a legend in his time.

[Hi Ball]

GF........The picture of the revolver that your showing is NOT just a Double ACTION! It is also a "Single Action" as it does have a hammer to pull back into a single action mode. Meaning the pull on the trigger will be far less than pulling the hammer back with using the trigger.

OK, this little revolver is fine I suppose but make sure you get some lessons or instruction on how to use the pistol. Please do NOT go off half-cocked and learn something the wrong way.

I leaned on a .22LR pistol! Now after purchasing my .357mag, it was evident I needed help learning how to hit the target with such a powerfull handgun. So I purchased a 22LR Ruger with interchangable cylinder in 22mag and began a trip down a long road, to become profiencent with a handgun like a .357mag. I suggest YOU do the same OK.

[AK-49]

HK USP Compact 40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xay1-w4vmY0

[ncboman]

:)

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ruger_single_six_guns.htm

ncboman

[GF.]

....Grandpaw's .32 short ain't gonnna make the grade, nor is my Single-Six, even with the Mag cylinder in there.....

....So is there some 'perfect' CCW piece out there for me?.... Or would the smart thing be to do the real volume at the range using my Single-Six (with its 6" barrel) and look for something more compact, even if it's basically a PITA to shoot ?

I've got the SS in .22/.22Mag, so I have done a little shooting with it. Just not recently (call it a good dozen years :rolleyes:), on account of needing a CCW permit to take it to the range around here.

And strictly speaking, I've got the 150-year-old Smith now.... but I don't expect to put a lot of rounds through it.

But FWIW, I didn't really notice any difference in shootability betweem Maxi-Mags and CB caps, so I guess I'm not starting from zero on recoil tolerance.
And the biggest shortcoming of the SS as a trainer is that unless I'm mistaken about this, your single-action options for a carry piece are not so many or so good, unless you get a 1911-type that you can carry locked&cocked...

So yeah, SA is a good way to take your time and aim your shots, but I don't foresee a lot of time for aimig in any situation in which you'd be clearly justified in taking a shot in the first place.... And if you've got to be able to deploy a DA quickly, you've got to practice that, no?

[dave-t.]

Are you better with a pistol or a long gun? What do you have more experience with? Are you going to get a CC permit?


For home protection, if all signs point to long gun and no signs point to handgun, then buy an apropriate shotgun. Maybe something with a 20-24" barrel that could double for hunting. CZ Upland model SxS comes to mind or a mid priced pump action.

I bought a 1911a1, got it at a good price and shot it for about a year. I have shot maybe 2 clips through it in the last 4yrs or so. Its very reliable, but not exactly handy, and no where near a CC type of gun in my mind.

I was fired up about CC when it was legalized in MO, but I don't see the need for where I am, where I go, and what I do, to carry a piece day in and day out for my protection.

Some people are in tighter spots than me though.

[GF.]

Good Qs, Dave...

But you know damn well I'm better with a long gun, because everybody who ever pulled a trigger is better with a long gun :D

I'm like you; I can scarcely imagine carrying anything, let alone on a regular basis. Not just because I couldn't ever do it every day (given that I drive through 3 different states every day, each one of them with a million, very tightly-written gun laws), but because it just seems like I'm far more likely to run into a situation where it would be a liability than an asset. I've gotten 1 ticket and 1 warning in the past 20 years and 300-odd thousand miles of driving, but that's 2 more traffic stops than instances in which I'd wished I had something along. And frankly, if I were being pulled over, I'd feel better not having a sidearm in the car, permit or not.

For home defense, I do have the 20 ga O/U, I suppose, and if two blasts from that can't change a Bad Guy's mind, then he obviously can't count to two. The thing is, though, retrieving a bird gun from some reasonable storage location and getting it loaded in a big hurry seems unlikelier than getting a handgun out of a lockbox that you keep close by the bed....

So like I say, it's hard to imagine wanting to carry a piece every day, but it's hard to imagine an armed hold-up at the bank there on the corner at the one stoplight in our little part of town, and that has happened at least twice in the past 5 years or so. You never know how this world is apt to change. I think there's a lot of hysteria being preached by some people whose ratings and political aspirations depend on it, but like I say, you never know where things might be headed or what might come your way. Nobody saw those jets coming on 9/11; not many people would've predicted how bad the Rodney King riots went, and not many people foresaw armed looting post-Katrina...

[GF.]

I am planning to get the CCW permit because I have to in order to shoot a handgun in my current home state. It can't leave the house if I can't legally carry it in my waistband, and since I do own the Single-Six, I guess I really ought to use it or lose it.

Kind of all-or-nothin'.....

[dave-t.]

Those laws are ridiculous.

Forced registration.

For home protection, I'd recommend keeping at least one gun out of the lock box, legal or not, kids or not, ammo/clip/speedloader where only you can get it, but get it quick. I grew up that way, but I understand why many many folks don't agree with it. My 10yr old daughter knows where the guns are, and knows damn well to come to me if she wants to look at them or shoot. Bullets are kept up high and unaccessable.

I've had a .22 by the back door for so long that I wouldn't know how to act if I didn't keep it there.

My grandad was a home protection freak. He had a loaded gun hidden in every room of his house. He also shot two intruders on seperate occasions. He was way out in no-where'sville, last house at the end of a gravel road. There were no cops comming for the better part of an hour if he was in trouble.

[Hi Ball]

GF......OK, we will try a different approach!!! Now CCW carry weapon for me nowdays is a 40 S&W Sig P-226 and backup gun is a Sig P-232 in .380auto using Cor-Bon 90grn HP ammo.

There are several very good pistols that are top shelf to use as a carry gun for your CCW permit. I like the Sig Sauer, H & K and also the GLOCK pistols.
Most models are DA/SA in the Sig Sauer line.

I don't wish to carry my Kimber anymore mixed with a Sig, I want both pistols to have same type of action and not have to worry or think about an additional safety to pull off......than can get you killed in a hurry!

So for me right at the moment, it is Sig & Sig for CCW use! Later I may go to the GLOCK 10mm caliber (STOPPER) and Sig P-239 in 40 S&W as backup.

So GF.....I would start looking at models in all 3 of these mentioned brands of semi - auto pistols and see which one feels the best in your hand. Then go rent and shoot several various models in a couple of hours. Rent is cheap and saves you lots of grief later, should you not like the pistol after your purchase said model. This way you will know, about feel, accuracy, recoil and ease of carry etc. Good Luck!

[GF.]

You mean to tell me you're carrying 2? Or is 'backup' what you carry when the bigger one would be just too much of a 'good' thing? (I stopped making jokes about guys with 'man purses' about the time I realized that one of those girly-lookin' fanny packs is as likely as not to contain something with a hig hnoisemaker potential :eek: )

Maybe I'm foolin' myself, but I've always thought of the real tiny pocket guns (like the .380 and on down) as being what an off-duty cop carries on those occasions where he really doesn't want to hassle with a gun but he's required to have something on him.

The Sigs look pretty slick, especially the 250, since you could start with a 9 and then upgrade:cool:

[Bushman]

I have been giving this some thought and much as I like revolvers, I would say that they are more orientated to hunting than self defense. For one thing they are slower to load and being from one of only two non-CCW states, if you are packing, it best be unloaded. A loaded clip for a semi-auto would be faster. Self-defense revolvers hold only 5 or 6 rounds. A bad guy can tell if a revolver is loaded because he can see the bullets looking back at him in the cylinder. A revolver is thicker because of the additional diameter of the cylinder.

So the best self-defense pistol is a semi-auto to my way of thinking, but which one? A thin one without a lot of weight. I have a Para P12 45 ACP with night sights and while I agree with Hi Ball that a .45 ACP is a stopper, mine is too big for a concealed carry gun. One of those little Kahr Arms 9mm or .40 S&W pistols would probably be worth a look. At 22-26 ounces a 9mm or a .40 S&W would give you some pretty sharp recoil and that may take the fun out of shooting it much. Personally when ever I took a handgun on the road, the one that I liked best was my stainless Colt Government in .380 with Cor-Bon ammo. A .380 fires a 9mm diameter bullet and a perp looking at it from the wrong end does not know that it isn't a full 9mm Luger, if they look at such things. That little Government model Colt is small enough to forget that it is along and flat enough to not cause a bulge. I know that the .380 is no giant killer, but the Cor-Bon or the MagSafe ammo does grow it up some and it is fun to shoot. I've never felt the need for a full size 9mm or a .40 S&W.

[Scout]

I'd look very closely at the Ruger SP 101 in .357 and the 3 inch barrel. It's extremely concealable and easy to carry. The .357 gives you the knockdown power that other handgun rounds compare themselves to. The 3 inch barrel provides enough length to be a shooter. It's got versitility in that you can practice / play with .38 special loadings. Good choice, IMO.:D

[ncboman]

limited experience again, but a Browning 380 auto is the most accurate pistol I've ever shot by a wide margin.

ncboman

[GF.]

I do admire a well-made weapon, I have to give you that...

But if it only gets used at 'self-defense' ranges, does it matter whether the thing groups into 2" or 6" at 20 paces? I'd hate to spend good money on a POC shooter, but I have to think that 99 44/100ths% of handgun misses or marginal hits are so much a function of operator error that you could never really fault the weapon....

Overall, though, I find myself agreeing with Bushman's criteria - something that's overall slim enough and compact enough so as to be actually concealed, rather than just 'covered up' makes a lotta sense.

Of course, so do factory-made 'plinker' loads for the .45ACP - you'd think, as popular as the 1911s are, that there would be a very healthy market for light target loads. Maybe that's what the subsonics are for.... But I suppose they can only get just so light before they fail to cycle reliably... So I guess that's what the .22LR conversion kits are for :cool:

Honest, Honey, it followed me home... can I keep it?

[dave-t.]

There is a lighter load for the .45, I believe its winchester 185grn target/plinker loads. They cycle fine in my 1911.

[GF.]

Hmmmm.... Looks like those are quite a bit more to hang onto than a .38 Spcl :D

Seems that most of the common 'service' rounds run right around 300-350 fpe--400 for a real 'whopper'-- but I suppose the balance of bullet mass vs. velocity has a lot more to do with the manageability of the recoil than the MV figures...

Somebody told me I should be renting several different guns to see how they handle and how well I can handle them... Seems like awful good advice! Unless, of course, I can get a friend to go to the range and let me help him give his collection a bit of a workout...:cool:

[Bushman]

"I do admire a well made weapon, I'll give you that."

I was watching a cop show the other night and the detective was beside himself because the prime suspect in a murder was not talking and his buddy would not give him up either. They had the 9mm casing from the crime scene, then they got a break when the #1 suspect got picked up again and they took a Heckler & Koch 9mm off the guy. What are the chances that would be the murder weapon? When I heard that it was an H&K, I was thinking odds were rather good. Turns out that they matched the casing to the same H&K and busted the guy for murder 1. I guess even among bad guys, you don't throw an $800. pistol in the river.

[GF.]

'Specially not if it'd mess up the plot line or somethin'....:D

That's some real money for some of those semis, all right.... I was kind of pleasantly surprised to see the 'certified, pre-owned' Sigs, but I'd bet they're hard to come by....

Makes me wonder if real-live Bad Guys pay retail....:rolleyes:

[Badger]

GF,

If you want a reliable CCW handgun, a revolver in .38 Special or .357 Magnum will serve you well. If you go to the .357, you can shoot .38 Spl wadcutters to "groove" handling a handgun. I like old S&W revolvers and carried several for many years on duty. A double action revolver serves most folks well because they shot cap guns and water pistols in their earlier years and the transition is natural.

If you go to a semi-auto, be prepared to fire 700+ rounds to "groove" that handgun in 9mm, .40 or .45 ACP.

Badger